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Is it okay for a otherkin to make persona ocs? Or should it only be your kintypes?

Radiant_Day Fictionkin, Yakko Fictionkin, canine hearted, feline hearted, Red Panda Therian, Clink of Po,:atal Error Sans, P!Tord, Michaelangelo from ROTTMNT

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I'm not quite sure I understand the question being asked here. What sort of OCs do you mean? The first thing my mind goes to is RP characters. (Probably because I'm working on a D&D character, but eh.) Aside from that, the next thing I'd think of is a fursona, simply because of the use of the term "persona." RP OCs and fursonas are very different from kintypes. There's not an issue with otherkin creating OCs, including OCs they adopt as a persona of some kind, as with fursonas. (See also: the large number of otherkin on this site who are also furries.) The problem arises when the two are conflated with one another. An OC persona is not a kintype and a kintype is not an OC persona. One can create an OC persona that is based on or the same species as their kintype(s), and that's a non-issue. But an OC persona is not a kintype. (The only exception would be fictionkin who may come from media that's yet to be released or if you come to the realization that a piece of media you're creating is somehow representative of a past life or something, but that's  complicated. We did have that come up once here, where someone felt they might be fictionkin of their own original work. However, that raises the question of "are you actually fictionkin or are you unconsciously drawing on latent pastlife memories in creating this piece of media?" Like I said, complicated.) But as far as creating a fursona type OC or a role play character type OC as a kintype, no. That would be a very different thing than a kintype. It might fall under some sort of 'linktype, since it's a voluntarily chosen identity, but I admit I'm not as familiar with 'link things. But one cannot create a kintype. A kintype is something one simply  is as a core part of their being.
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Rowan

Wolf Therian | Gryphonkin | Kitsunekin | Crowkith | Ravenkith | Red-Tailed Hawk-kith

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I'm not quite sure I understand the question being asked here. What sort of OCs do you mean? The first thing my mind goes to is RP characters. (Probably because I'm working on a D&D character, but eh.) Aside from that, the next thing I'd think of is a fursona, simply because of the use of the term "persona." RP OCs and fursonas are very different from kintypes. There's not an issue with otherkin creating OCs, including OCs they adopt as a persona of some kind, as with fursonas. (See also: the large number of otherkin on this site who are also furries.) The problem arises when the two are conflated with one another. An OC persona is not a kintype and a kintype is not an OC persona. One can create an OC persona that is based on or the same species as their kintype(s), and that's a non-issue. But an OC persona is not a kintype. (The only exception would be fictionkin who may come from media that's yet to be released or if you come to the realization that a piece of media you're creating is somehow representative of a past life or something, but that's  complicated. We did have that come up once here, where someone felt they might be fictionkin of their own original work. However, that raises the question of "are you actually fictionkin or are you unconsciously drawing on latent pastlife memories in creating this piece of media?" Like I said, complicated.) But as far as creating a fursona type OC or a role play character type OC as a kintype, no. That would be a very different thing than a kintype. It might fall under some sort of 'linktype, since it's a voluntarily chosen identity, but I admit I'm not as familiar with 'link things. But one cannot create a kintype. A kintype is something one simply  is as a core part of their being.

What I ment was can otherkin make a human oc? Or a representation of what they are like as a human. I'm sorry for confusing you, I had a rough day.

Radiant_Day Fictionkin, Yakko Fictionkin, canine hearted, feline hearted, Red Panda Therian, Clink of Po,:atal Error Sans, P!Tord, Michaelangelo from ROTTMNT

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What I ment was can otherkin make a human oc? Or a representation of what they are like as a human. I'm sorry for confusing you, I had a rough day.

No worries. I don't see why you couldn't. I mean, for a fair few of us, the human is the mask we put on. Kinda the opposite of a furry. :grntg: Reminds me a little of this panel from "Theri There," by Orion Scribner:

[ATTACH type=full]5815[/ATTACH]

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Rowan

Wolf Therian | Gryphonkin | Kitsunekin | Crowkith | Ravenkith | Red-Tailed Hawk-kith

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I'm fox therian, but I have a lot of OCs that are different species. There's no rule saying you can't make OCs that aren't your kintype, it's totally fine to make whatever characters you want :)
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Red Fox Therian | Mooglekin | Sylveonkin | System full of fictives

Foxcore: She/Her (Headmates' pronouns are varied)

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What a silly question, of course you can! Theres no problem. I used to be a huge gacha life fan in 2017-2019 and even had a YT channel, and I had a lot human OCs as well as humans mixed with animals.

No worries. I don't see why you couldn't. I mean, for a fair few of us, the human is the mask we put on. Kinda the opposite of a furry. :grntg: Reminds me a little of this panel from "Theri There," by Orion Scribner:

[ATTACH type=full" alt="Screenshot_20220517-180645~2.png]5815[/ATTACH]

Also im sorry but-I SAW THAT AND AUTOMATICALLY THOUGHT OF TIGRY : ' D.

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"they call him hermit the frog, hes looking for a dog. did you find your b!tch in me? your an abomination socially.."

she/her

 

 

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My persona is a monster

I’m a polymorph.

Oc wise I have many oc’s of various species.

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Median/Dreamway system

Donnie&Leo (Fictive) Kirby (faekin//polymorph//clown) Dib (fictive) Raemus (werewolf) Gabriel (angel)

Polyamorous // Aro Ace // System // Immersive Daydreamer // Roleplayer // Dm's open

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The nature of what a persona is, at least from the school of analytical psychology - and thus, sibling to the much more famous psychoanalysis school, of which all modern psychology is largely derived in from together between them - the persona, or even personas, are the metaphorical masks of artificially constructed personality and identity that individuals don to make themselves fill some sort of cultural or societal role. A persona is highly conforming to the native milieu of which it is designed for, or purposefully countercultural in reverse, but either way it is an adopted identity; it is less significant than an "alter ego" and it is not nearly as dominating, in that the bearer of the persona is still themselves underneath, merely they see the world through the persona's lens and act out the role. No less, a persona is an infantile archetype of a greater archetype, a tiny slit through which a greater aspect of being exists commonly throughout the shared collective unconscious, of which is a mass constellation and aggregation of psychic components of every single person and animals as well have this to a lesser extent.

 

A persona is thus not the individual themselves but their operant means of interacting with and interfacing into society. This is because the self, specifically the "true self" or the capitalized Self, is an extremely disagreeable entity initially, because it manifests as incomplete and insecure. It is, in this orchestration, incapable of functioning in society because it is not so thoroughly integrated, individuated, and actualized to survive contact with human reality. A weak self will be torn apart by the world of man because in many respects, it does not conform for various reasons, and so the functional coping method is the persona.

 

Now, one may create or derive a persona from anything, and nearly all persons - and when I say persons I mean those who do inner work and those who do not - do completely unconsciously by the thrust of the world they exist in. They must adopt a guise to function in and with or they become disorderly, dysfunctional, and disabled at increasing degrees; think of a depressed person who puts on a "happy face" and goes through the motions but deep within they are truly, impossibly, and hopelessly depressed but shuffle along all the same, and one gets glimpses of this in observation of them yet they still to the bitter end play pretend with the social mask. However, I will note that conscious creations of a persona are much more difficult because one must actively put on the act and play into the role, but indeed every persona a character and not a person, least of all not an individual. I will caution however, people all too often give in to their personas and scorn their individual identity, most often convincing themselves their persona is themselves, because it is not only all they live, everything about the individual within they find disagreeable because they see how if they are themselves they are rejected, and when looking at the shadow-selves, the Shadow, or their inferior counterpart in gender of the feminine Anima for males or the masculine Animus for females they know for certain these will be rejected as well.

 

An example of this would be a man who stereotypically talks nothing but sports, brags about his ability to barbeque, drinks beer with his friends almost nightly, and purchased a very large truck not dissimilar to the ten thousand other ones a "man" has. These are all hypermasculine stereotypes, rife with what is the Animus, but he neglects both the Anima and Shadow and dons this Persona instead, because it curries favor of what a "man" is and rewards him for it with peers. These peers do not love him and would not love him - dare even say the word love sincerely likely, I will add, because that would be considered effeminate at best, homosexual at worst, thus highly taboo to them - for say, if he removed the Persona and tried to be his Self. His Self is disagreeable to what a "man" is supposed to be in society. In fact, he quite likes gardening and finds rabbits to be his favorite animal because their fur is quite soft, and that, contrary to these niceties, he reflects in himself he really could kill a person if he was angry enough, not even if it were justified, and so he rejects all of these things because they are the Anima and Shadow respectively in this. Instead of finding ways to integrate these things into every aspect of himself - to include the Persona - he simply chooses to be the Persona. He is dissatisfied with his life because he makes poor decisions based on what the Persona is stereotyped to do and he feels little personal reward of these things, so he suffers, and in this case by the time he reaches middle age, what next stereotype does one expect? He suffers the "midlife crisis" and so on, realizing he has wasted half of his life, if not more due to the frequent abuse of his body, on an absolute lie.

 

This story is extreme, yes, but scarcely should one of us be able to see or know of someone who lived this way or lives this way or is living this way. So the persona is not inherently, and seldom is, a "good" thing. We should all strive to not mask ourselves just because the world is difficult, we should unmask ourselves because the world is difficult. It will come at a price, doubtlessly and terribly most often, and it will sacrifice much to do so. But the goal is wholeness, is it not? So a persona must be used not as some elaborate costume but as thin veil of pragmatism, one so thin the thing beneath can be seen and experienced still by just looking deeper than surface level.

 

By this I mean, even I will note that I adopt personas, in fact it is a method I extensively use to make myself camouflaged among people, because it is the case we are very much unlike and my aura - just my presence - is menacing, predatory, and "other"; I do not belong with people and people certainly do not belong with me. So it is a point that I adopt a persona to meet the situation. The persona is not a character, rather it is social camouflage that I put forward to blend in and maneuver through life. I steer clear of the deeper things in conversation or thought, I engage in idle, inane, pointless banter, and so on, but most of all I do this by largely keeping to myself. Now people are not absolutely fooled by this but it takes them a while, more than immediately, to recognize something different; an individual with vibrant blue hair is very obvious and is making an overt statement and thus inviting immediate attention and scrutiny, but if she did not so and merely kept her hair dark, she could slip by. Is it wrong for her to do the latter over the former? Not inherently, one is not their hair, not their clothes, not their makeup or jewelry or car or children or spouse or occupation or nationality or whatever. So long as she knows herself within, she is successful in the great work.

 

So making "original characters" in personas is a bit of a game of playing with fire, a bit of a game engaged in banality, a bit of a game in going the wrong direction. But is it not "okay"? No, because a persona is not anyone in and of themselves, a persona does not exist any more than a fleeting thought does. It exists as a concept but not as an individual, but concepts made tangible can be dangerous. There is a serious danger to losing oneself to the illusion. This is not my trying to scare oneself but one must always remember one is oneself not it. If it is kept as a creative work as reflections of personality or interpretations there of, no different than "kintype" ones, there is no issue, but many conflate these two. I myself am not fond of this, it is little more than a distraction, but it is not demonstrably wrong, and so one merely need be actively aware of.

 

But I will add just for the sake of clarity, one cannot become "kin" to anything. Either one begins as "kin" from the beginning (it must be born into), that is to say one is innately something (it is non-elective), or one is not "kin" to it; one cannot choose to be "otherkin" or "therian" is what I mean, so creating characters out of them really is just an elaborate way of going about fiction but again, nothing in fiction is inherently or automatically wrong in itself. Just bear in mind a character who is "otherkin" does not make oneself "otherkin" or similar at the same time.

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I think there's a lot to be said for the difference between a persona, as in character creation (like a fursona or, in the case of this thread, a humansona), and a persona in terms of the subconscious chameleon act we each put on when dealing with different aspects of the human society in which we live. There's a very big difference there. And I think as long as one recognizes that difference, it's not that much of an issue.

 

I'll use myself as an example, because I know my own life and mind best. So, there are many facets that make up my human identity. I am enby, I am Latine, I am deeply rooted in Appalachia, I am a scholar, I am a geek, I am a haunter, and I am a professional. Those are all different parts of me. They're all different ways I see myself and different roles in which I interact with the human world around me. And in each one, I act differently. With the LGBTQ+ community, I celebrate my gender identity and my place in the universe. I celebrate being with people who understand. Outside of that community, I hide my true gender behind a feminine(ish) mask. I present as female because I know it's what's expected of me. But it's  not me. And when I'm sure it's safe to do so, I will gladly cast aside that false self. I am both Latine and. Southern Appalachian, despite growing up in the suburban North. When I'm with my father's family, I'm loudly Cubane. I speak Spanish, I cook and consume Cuban food quite happily, I listen to son cubano and dance rumba and salsa with the rest of the family. I listen to stories of our family in Cuba and of how we came to this land. Of the sacrifices and the courage and the compassion that required. When I'm with my mother's family, I'm proudly Appalachian. I'm proud of the three centuries my family has survived in their isolated little corner of nowhere and of my family's lineage of midwifery. I take great pride in telling people who my mother, my aunt, my grandmother, and my great grandmothers are/were. I speak a regional variant of Appalachian-Ozarks English and do so with a distinct drawl. I take great joy in singing with my family as we cook or work or just exist together. I don't really put on either of these faces in front of the opposite side of the family. My father's family, many of them would never understand a word I said were I to use my mother's family's speech. And my mother's family, as much as I love them, some of them can be more than a little intolerant, so I don't ever speak Spanish to them. And neither of these faces come out up North, where I'm from. Folks here wouldn't understand them. So I hide them away. I'm also a scholar, and can speak and write like one quite readily, but that doesn't work in the world outside of academia. My tendency towards deep dives into niche topics is also seen as strange outside academia. I'm a geek, into manga, anime, fanfic, D&D, high fantasy, you name it. I don't discuss those interests outside the company of other geeks, because I know most folks will just sort of roll their eyes and write me off. I am a haunter - a scare-actor in a haunted house. When you come through a haunt, I'm one of the folks in costume and makeup whose job is to scare the bejezus out of you. When I explain that, the responses I get are generally either "But  why?" or "You can get paid for that?!" with virtually no inbetween. We're a very strange, very insular bunch. It takes a particular kind of weird, and I feel at home there. But I don't put on my scholar mask there and my haunter mask doesn't generally leave the haunt. Otherwise, non-haunters would really think I was nuts. I think that's enough examples of day to day personas that are all some facet of the real human me of this lifetime.

 

When it comes to personas as in character creation, that's a very different thing. I've created formerly human personas for the haunt and played them in the show as a very niche form of theater. I've created human characters who I've used for roleplaying. I've also created human characters who I've sworn I was going to cosplay if I  ever got their novels finished and published. (Someday...) That's not that different from a fursona. None of those are. In all instances, I'm creating a character, developing a backstory for them, a personality, a list of quirks... I have a human RP character who stutters. My haunt character this past season, when I needed to stall folkel (there are many reasons we might do this) or had groups I knew wouldn't scare, well, he loved to cook and would tell them about how the other day he made a lovely leg of Sam or a succulant rump roast. (Because cannibalism jokes worked great with my set and character.) I don't stutter and, while I do love to cook, I'm not going around eating humans. And that's aside from all the  other differences between these characters and me. So obviously these characters are not me and I am not them, and I simply put them on and take them off like masks. All of that is playacting. (Or actual acting, but you know.)

 

So I don't think there's really any more inherent risk in creating a "humansona" than there is in creating a "fursona." Nor, indeed, than in writing a novel or acting onstage. We play many parts in our lives existing in human society. Some of these reflect the real us, insofar as they reflect the cultures and places we were born into and the identities we've accumulated as we've gone through life. Others are very distinctly  not us. And whether you're creating a "humansona" or a "fursona" - or RPing, for that matter - so long as you can distinguish yourself from the characters whose masks you choose to wear, there's not a problem. It's just making sure that boundary line is clear.

Rowan

Wolf Therian | Gryphonkin | Kitsunekin | Crowkith | Ravenkith | Red-Tailed Hawk-kith

They/Them :nerd: Xe/Xir

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I think there's a lot to be said for the difference between a persona, as in character creation (like a fursona or, in the case of this thread, a humansona), and a persona in terms of the subconscious chameleon act we each put on when dealing with different aspects of the human society in which we live. There's a very big difference there. And I think as long as one recognizes that difference, it's not that much of an issue.

 

I'll use myself as an example, because I know my own life and mind best. So, there are many facets that make up my human identity. I am enby, I am Latine, I am deeply rooted in Appalachia, I am a scholar, I am a geek, I am a haunter, and I am a professional. Those are all different parts of me. They're all different ways I see myself and different roles in which I interact with the human world around me. And in each one, I act differently. With the LGBTQ+ community, I celebrate my gender identity and my place in the universe. I celebrate being with people who understand. Outside of that community, I hide my true gender behind a feminine(ish) mask. I present as female because I know it's what's expected of me. But it's  not me. And when I'm sure it's safe to do so, I will gladly cast aside that false self. I am both Latine and. Southern Appalachian, despite growing up in the suburban North. When I'm with my father's family, I'm loudly Cubane. I speak Spanish, I cook and consume Cuban food quite happily, I listen to son cubano and dance rumba and salsa with the rest of the family. I listen to stories of our family in Cuba and of how we came to this land. Of the sacrifices and the courage and the compassion that required. When I'm with my mother's family, I'm proudly Appalachian. I'm proud of the three centuries my family has survived in their isolated little corner of nowhere and of my family's lineage of midwifery. I take great pride in telling people who my mother, my aunt, my grandmother, and my great grandmothers are/were. I speak a regional variant of Appalachian-Ozarks English and do so with a distinct drawl. I take great joy in singing with my family as we cook or work or just exist together. I don't really put on either of these faces in front of the opposite side of the family. My father's family, many of them would never understand a word I said were I to use my mother's family's speech. And my mother's family, as much as I love them, some of them can be more than a little intolerant, so I don't ever speak Spanish to them. And neither of these faces come out up North, where I'm from. Folks here wouldn't understand them. So I hide them away. I'm also a scholar, and can speak and write like one quite readily, but that doesn't work in the world outside of academia. My tendency towards deep dives into niche topics is also seen as strange outside academia. I'm a geek, into manga, anime, fanfic, D&D, high fantasy, you name it. I don't discuss those interests outside the company of other geeks, because I know most folks will just sort of roll their eyes and write me off. I am a haunter - a scare-actor in a haunted house. When you come through a haunt, I'm one of the folks in costume and makeup whose job is to scare the bejezus out of you. When I explain that, the responses I get are generally either "But  why?" or "You can get paid for that?!" with virtually no inbetween. We're a very strange, very insular bunch. It takes a particular kind of weird, and I feel at home there. But I don't put on my scholar mask there and my haunter mask doesn't generally leave the haunt. Otherwise, non-haunters would really think I was nuts. I think that's enough examples of day to day personas that are all some facet of the real human me of this lifetime.

 

When it comes to personas as in character creation, that's a very different thing. I've created formerly human personas for the haunt and played them in the show as a very niche form of theater. I've created human characters who I've used for roleplaying. I've also created human characters who I've sworn I was going to cosplay if I  ever got their novels finished and published. (Someday...) That's not that different from a fursona. None of those are. In all instances, I'm creating a character, developing a backstory for them, a personality, a list of quirks... I have a human RP character who stutters. My haunt character this past season, when I needed to stall folkel (there are many reasons we might do this) or had groups I knew wouldn't scare, well, he loved to cook and would tell them about how the other day he made a lovely leg of Sam or a succulant rump roast. (Because cannibalism jokes worked great with my set and character.) I don't stutter and, while I do love to cook, I'm not going around eating humans. And that's aside from all the  other differences between these characters and me. So obviously these characters are not me and I am not them, and I simply put them on and take them off like masks. All of that is playacting. (Or actual acting, but you know.)

 

So I don't think there's really any more inherent risk in creating a "humansona" than there is in creating a "fursona." Nor, indeed, than in writing a novel or acting onstage. We play many parts in our lives existing in human society. Some of these reflect the real us, insofar as they reflect the cultures and places we were born into and the identities we've accumulated as we've gone through life. Others are very distinctly  not us. And whether you're creating a "humansona" or a "fursona" - or RPing, for that matter - so long as you can distinguish yourself from the characters whose masks you choose to wear, there's not a problem. It's just making sure that boundary line is clear.

Very clear. I'm sorry for asking the stupid question. I'm an idiot, just like my "friends" say. Sorry, I'm just really depressed today.

Radiant_Day Fictionkin, Yakko Fictionkin, canine hearted, feline hearted, Red Panda Therian, Clink of Po,:atal Error Sans, P!Tord, Michaelangelo from ROTTMNT

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Very clear. I'm sorry for asking the stupid question. I'm an idiot, just like my "friends" say. Sorry, I'm just really depressed today.

You're fine. I was more just making a point about the fact that we all play many roles in our daily lives, sometimes without even having to think about them. And that by the same token plenty of folkel - otherkin included - can create fictional characters whose identities they tend to take on temporarily as a sort of mask or costume without it causing any problems. It's a huge, huge thing, actually. The temporarily putting on identities that are not you, I mean. Super common and for the most part entirely free of major negative issues. You're not an idiot. Don't listen to those "friends."

Rowan

Wolf Therian | Gryphonkin | Kitsunekin | Crowkith | Ravenkith | Red-Tailed Hawk-kith

They/Them :nerd: Xe/Xir

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You're fine. I was more just making a point about the fact that we all play many roles in our daily lives, sometimes without even having to think about them. And that by the same token plenty of folkel - otherkin included - can create fictional characters whose identities they tend to take on temporarily as a sort of mask or costume without it causing any problems. It's a huge, huge thing, actually. The temporarily putting on identities that are not you, I mean. Super common and for the most part entirely free of major negative issues. You're not an idiot. Don't listen to those "friends."

I won't listen to them. They always do that, I don't even like them. I only keep them as friends so I have someone to talk to at school.

Radiant_Day Fictionkin, Yakko Fictionkin, canine hearted, feline hearted, Red Panda Therian, Clink of Po,:atal Error Sans, P!Tord, Michaelangelo from ROTTMNT

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Like a Bruce Wayne fictionkin being batman

How the heck to I message you again?

Radiant_Day Fictionkin, Yakko Fictionkin, canine hearted, feline hearted, Red Panda Therian, Clink of Po,:atal Error Sans, P!Tord, Michaelangelo from ROTTMNT

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?

Like, get back to our messages?

[automerge]1653268910[/automerge]

Like, get back to our messages?

On steam.

Radiant_Day Fictionkin, Yakko Fictionkin, canine hearted, feline hearted, Red Panda Therian, Clink of Po,:atal Error Sans, P!Tord, Michaelangelo from ROTTMNT

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Oh that's easy press the button in the top left and click chat

Oh got it! Thank you!

[automerge]1653269078[/automerge]

Oh got it! Thank you!

Can't find it!

Radiant_Day Fictionkin, Yakko Fictionkin, canine hearted, feline hearted, Red Panda Therian, Clink of Po,:atal Error Sans, P!Tord, Michaelangelo from ROTTMNT

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